@Harlan, Brad & Brandon: Hi guys!!

@Sara: I completely and totally agree with you on the void. In fact it is pretty clear within everyone’s comments that this is a common dissatisfaction.

I definitely want to hear the war stories on Pm systems.

Along with that I want to ask you all:

what is a dream system? What should it have or should it not have?

re: basecamp. I’ve tried it and I just didn’t get into it. I used it for several projects but it just isn’t a solution I can see myself using all of the time. I have also tried activecollab which I also had the same feelings about. I think there is definitely still a void in PM software and I hope someone fills it soon!

On Basecamp: for me, the expense has paid for itself in the few places where I use it… certain clients who feel the need to have that intense organization and “herding” work well with PM systems like Basecamp. I brand it to look like their project, and even though it usually gets long forgotten halfway through the project, it establishes that “professional” feel that you brought up: distinguishing you from the $150/site cousin in law’s of the world.

@ Brad: It’s true! Clients who are already entrenched in their own systems are likely to just flat out ignore invitations to new systems and stick with direct emails and CC’ing… especially high tech clients. This is probably because they’ve already honed in on their own systems and feel overwhelmed by the tsunami of “self help” software out there. I was actually pretty skeptical of systems like Basecamp for a while just because there’s so many of them out there and it’s hard to make heads of tails of what they actually do unless someone sits you down. The fact is there’s really no way around that and you’ve just gotta be on the ball when you know you have active projects for clients who work through non-controlled communication methods.

That’s all external communication though… internally, our team has also used a lot of Google Groups (and some homebrew apps) in the past 6 months or so. It’s not as pretty as Basecamp and it’s certainly not doing anything close to what Copper is doing, but for individual projects that require a lot of internal reviewing and QA, it really gets the job done and does something that email’s don’t do: it provides a single piece of real estate for several people (all remote) to view a project and rally around during a phone meeting.

So, that’s my own experience with PM apps. Funny thing is that, like you mentioned, unless you constantly and religiously update them, it’s so easy to forget about them for a week and then it begins to feel pointless to have to return and spend time updating them. I guess the larger point is that at some point in a businesses growth (I’m talking 20 people) there really needs to be a system (online or off) that keeps track of the chaos and documents the major timelines of each active project…

Otherwise you enter into the Mack Truck situation where the entire business is being balanced on the shoulders of one or two people and it becomes extremely difficult to bring new people in to help with the situation because there’s no written documentation on the day to day projects.

On a lighter note: Anyone have any great success stories or tips with PM software or any other system for managing huge numbers of projects at once? Horror stories? Lessons?

As a one-man show, I’ve found that having a formal, standard procedure for every step of a project does as much for impressing clients as it does for actually improving the quality of the output. A fair number of my clients still see “web design” as what they paid a 15 year-old $90 to do 8 years ago, and even once they realize they need something much better the initial project estimates can still be a bit of a shock. Handling the process like a professional doesn’t just cover you legally, it’s a cue to the customer that they’re paying for a professional service and result that will boost their business in measurable ways.

As for project management, I use an OSS activeCollab fork. Basecamp has some nifty features, but I can’t justify the expense when a free solution already does most of what I need, especially when it stays on my server and let’s me fine tune it to suit my needs. Noticing a trend of comments on PM software, though:

———-
quote (brandon):
PM software is helpful… if you can rely upon team members using it reliably

quote (brad):
my problem is trying to get clients to appreciate what the system can do and use it! it is a very easy tool to learn, but clients are used to their old methods of emailing and cc’ing people that they don’t want to try something new.
———-

I think one of the problems is that while a PM system *can* be extremely helpful, it’s done entirely on our (developer’s) terms. Clients might not want to give up cc’ing people because, whether they use it or not, they feel secure having copies floating around on their email servers.

I recently switched a client over from email to PM for their internal communication, and for the most part they love it. Unfortunately most of their external communication isn’t worth the effort to manage PM accounts for, so invariably any non-phone/fax communication with them gets done through the old email/CCing, which only leads to a mass renege – the old system wasn’t perfect, but at least it was consistent. What I really need is a way to easily integrate emails into a project manager, if not under automatic conditions than at least with a streamlined manual process. Assuming it wasn’t too complex, integration could really help lower the barrier to entry while meeting more needs in the long term. And of course the pipe dream is to somehow fit phone and fax into all this, but I don’t even want to think about what that would involve.

This went a bit longer than I intended, so I’ll quit while I’m ahead (or even, or not losing by too much).

but that aside i actually use basecamp quite a bit. i try to funnel everything for projects through there, and do a good job.

my problem is trying to get clients to appreciate what the system can do and use it! it is a very easy tool to learn, but clients are used to their old methods of emailing and cc’ing people that they don’t want to try something new.

surprisingly it is my most ‘high-tech’ clients who seem to have this problem. others seem to be open to trying new things.

in the meantime i keep using basecamp and hope they will soon see its value and hop on.

I usually try to combat this with regular phone meetings as you guys do; during or not during projects I general like to call around and keep a good report with clients and teammates… but as you mentioned, this becomes somewhat unrealistic when you have as many major projects in the air as you guys do. PM software is helpful… but can sometimes be as much a hindrance as anything else if you don’t have someone to constantly keep it up to date (and that’s if you can rely upon team members using it reliably). Having said that, the PM software we’ve been using so far actually has been reliable… so you’ve got a good foundation there.

What’s more interesting to me though is looking at how you guys are reaching the capacity at which two people can manage an entire business on their own while still having their fingers in each dish. At some point delegation, not more hard work and long hours, becomes the only way to grow. This makes the question more about how to have sustainable growth inside of a company and make the jump from a small business (under 25 consistent workers) to a larger one with the least amount of “growing pains”. As you suggest, perhaps the key to keeping each ball in the air is to have more people juggling fewer balls, not one superhuman juggler who can balance 50 bowling pins and a couple flaming swords at once.